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derivative filename/jpeg
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363-01175 to 363-01187.pdf
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Digital Object Identifier
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363-01175 to 363-01187
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Title
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Article about Le Phan Hung, captured North Vietnamese trooper
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Description
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Original caption: "prisoner." Note by Keever: "exclusive North Vietnamese prisoner interview: a peek inside his country." Article for the New York Herald Tribune about an interview with Le Phan Hung, a captured North Vietnamese trooper
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Transcript
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- Page 1
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Bev Deepe
101 Gon Ly Secon
prisoner one
[1]]
[194]
(Le Phan Hung, whose na ments
in a 23-7002-old North Victamase pola private.
One of tho first
North Vietnamese troopers over to be captured in Vioin's five-year-old
at 1st Vietnamese Army Division headque ture
Izo
interviewed
in us, 400 miles north of Saigon. He spoke freely, but hoitation; often
stopping to massage vowled leg, tugging at grey pajana uniform given him
by the Vietnamese govemment foroos, engezing accepting at American filtered
olge rette or a cup of ton, which he hall hastily finished in four gulps.
This correspondent was the second morioan ho'd ever noon;
first van Alezioan zen on helicopter which carried him to . io sonotions
"You look very strange--a little like a Russian,"
Three hours and the bookoful of notes later, Hung finished
the
giving a pockhold picture of North Vietnam and relating his route of invasion"
into the South. Thila thore is no way to verify the socuracy of his account,
it is mitton hero in almost verbatim, as ho z told is, with nono
reshuffling of the account into chronological orders)
(More)
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deepe
prisoner2
I was born in Ham Dinh province. My father is now fifty and is
$54 and is a farmor. My mother is 50. I have an elder brother and
younger brother and sister. During the French War, we To were luckys
nothing was destroyed and my father did not serve in either any because he
hed a disease of the log.
In 1955-before the agrarian reform-my family had five hectores
(ED. Note: 1 hootere equals 2 cores) of lend, two houses and five sater
buffalo. But in 1956 after the reform, the government took away four hostere,
one house and three bufalloes and said i ve belonged to the olens of
leniomers,
So we had only one brick house, 2 water buffalo and one hectare
of land, which produced about 2500 kilo of pelli (E. Notor unbunked rice)
in a good your. of the five hooters, the government Scotla end ve
us the worst lend and took the best to divide up for the poor people for them
to work on. The poor people can keep some of the ration, bnge but give some
of it to the government. My father has to pay taxes-about 10 kilo of rice for
every 25 kilo he produces. But the ration of what you keep deponis on
what the pensant noels, on the quality of the land, on the amount of the
produce. If a family is large and on work more land, they pay more taxes.
Everyone pays thoir tanes after the padi is harvested and dried. Then they carry
it to the government storehouse in sacks slung over their shoulders.
(More)
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deepe
prisoner 2
The only thing rationed is clothing. Before 1963, we could
buy as much cloth as we wanted. But in 1963, we were rationed eight meters
per person per year. It's the same ration for adults and for children.
To on bus ne much food as we went. To have government food
stores and private shops in the market. The government store is chep cheaper,
bat we must have coupons for that and there's a limit on how much you can buy,
but in the private shops me on buy as much as me want. The limit in the
government store is 200 gmnxx of ment a day por persons
4-500 gms
of seafood; 600 grams of rice. We can buy food for as many days an we want,
up to the limit of one month and we have to buy it with our identification
canis, the people prefer the government stores because price is lower but if
they want to buy more they go to the market.
(he managed log
to hospital onre).
snd porched it on a chair and digressed
In North Vietnam, it's very easy to go to the hospitals ovaryono
is admitted. In corious 0.00 an ambulance oerries the people to the
hospital. There are no private doctors. Fomen are taken to the hospital
for birthgiving end in the villages women go to the maternity center and stay
several days before giving birth. There's plenty of motioine in the Horil,
In tem Son, Thanh Hoa province ( noter
there are come
Some importan
nice benches and a lovely resort area with two-story villas. Red Chinese
people and workers of the big factories can go to the seashore there.
important cadre go for one or two monthng those who are sick I can go for 3 months,
which is the maximum period.
(More)
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deepe
prisoner-3
SHCOOLING.
I had completed my 9th year of schooling. The school system
in the Forth usually onis at the 1st 10th year, with oxume at the end of the 4th,
7th and 10th year. If I'd passed my 10th year exans and had the money,
I could go the university.
My dream was to go to medical school. It's a f- 5-year course
in the University. 11 the university classes are in lianoi, which as has
five faculties 1 for agriculture and forestry; 1 for medicines 1 for
politi polytehnicel; 1 tonoheres 1 all-natulente ashool. The last one tekos
7 years to finish and includes enger engineering and arte end colences.
In the University, tuition is free, the government gives food and
lodging, but the family taken onze of clothing and bodice. Cost depends on the
wealth of the family-amally 200 dong a year (1 dong equals B. S.27 conts)
If I'd have gone to the university, my family would be in a very difficult
Be finencial situation. We have nome money after harvest, but it muldn't
have been enough. My father would have to work at a nearby brick factory
for 1.2 a day. And my mother would have to go into her savings to send an ad
perhaps we'd have to go without food sometimes. My family is very
unhappy. Of course, everyone loves onoh other, but we're very poor.
I went to pohool in the city of Han Dinh, The school used to
be run by Catholio priests. It has 20 buildings, 15 in brick and 5 with strawroofs.
North Vietname so schools have 3 oyolos. I was in the third, which
includes grades (or years) 8, 9 and 10. In this cycle in my school, there
were 4 ela ssen of 8th graders, 4 of 9th graders and 2 for 10th graders, enoh
with about 50 people. Girls and boys stuly together with about 20 girls
for every 30 boys in each olass.
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deepe
prisoner-4
5
My home was 10 kilometer (ed note: 1 kilometer equals .6 mile)
from Nam Dinh and I rode a motorised eyolo to school every day and went home at
night. Some students had bioyoles and a few had moro motorized bicycles. In
a class of 50, 15 stulents would have bioyoles and two ro three would have
motorised ones. Moyoles cost 400 dong; they're made in Greckoslovakia.
flax Gas cots costs 1.2 dong per le litor. Nax A notebook of 20
sheets conts .6 dong and oigarettes cost 1 dong for one brand and dong for
another brand.
Thirthy tonohers taught in the school. I studied math, chemistry,
physical sciences for about 12 hours a week. Also geography for 2 hours;
history for 2 hours; literature for 2 hours. Te had no military training in
school.
In 1961-62 my school taught Russian luan language for four
hours a week. But in 1961-62 my school taught it only one hour a week.
There are no Chinese language classes. I didn't study any foreign languages,
but if a students wants to specialise in any language he can go to a special
foreign language school in Hanoi.
Also about four hours a week we had political studies and
learned about Max Maxxion. The tonohors were administrative ondro from
the Vietnamese governmental services and are members of the Communist party.
These classes are very boring. It takes too many hours of study
to the detriment of other loasses-it takes time away from math for example.
Political studies are for the third cycle only; in the second cycle-grades
5-7 the students are too small.
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deepe
prisoner
The political studies are mainly about what is Communiam
We studied about Mao, but not a bout Khrushchev.
We didn't etuly
Russian Communion, hat only Chinese-the glography of Mao, about the Long March and
the liberation of China. Put nothing about his bousy of wars of liboration
so in going on in South Viet lan
Some students think Mac in a myth and our studies are not too
Because some older
eloco to the turt truth. Some students wait to suo him, como don't; the
population in the same. Soms like hing nomo don't.
people studied history and they know Chinn sa han dominated Viet Nam in
the past mal Mec in the Ired lender of China. I wouldn't like to meet Mno.
I didn't see Russians and Chinose in New Dinh vozy often, so
I couldn't notice any change in numbers. The Chinese are toolmicians; they
help build roads, bridges, hydroelectric plants and help with urban planning.
They holpol building stool plant in Thai Nguyen province (l. notes
). It's been in production two years already. It's a big
center with a 40 kilometer perimeter. And big high fannces produce the steel.
bet no Tassien tenchers in school, but there were many
Russians with the government administrative services in Nan Dinh--maybe 20 or 30.
I new a small or with e Vietnamese chauffeur sax driving three funnies
eround Nam Dinh onco. The Chinese x were more numerous then the Eussiens
in Nam Dinh, but I last saw Nan Dinh in April, 1963. I don't know how many
are in Hanoi. All foreigners are dressed in civilian clothes I've never
seen a foreigner dressed in military clothes.
The North Vietnamese poople dx have no opinion about the
government-e don't see the government ofte, except Indpendence De-
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deepe
prisoner-6
when in 1945, Ho Chi Minh set up his first government).
Ian To Chi Tinh
at a political celebration in 1962. He was bigger and fatter than before.
He was very simply dressed and spoke very simply to the people. Everyone loves
My Chi Tinh
is well known in the government
Phan Van Dong (
}and Conde Keren Che (
) is well known in the military. During battle of Dien Bienk
Binh Phu (the defeat of the French in 1945), Ho Chi Minh and Gimp came to the
ba ttlefield and lond the battlo. I was very young then, but I horad people
talk about it.
Since 1962 1961, the government propaganda said the Americans
are invading Vietnam and the South Vietnamese would march towards the North.
Before coming to South Viet Non, I was told we'd liberate it, but we weren't
told many details about the South. They Army didn't tell us much about the South
either.
But the North Vietnamese people don't believe the southerners
will ma roh towards the north. Ench part of the country would stay separate
but maybe the government people at a higher level think differently.
The goverment started the propaganda that the Southerners
would invade North Viet Nam so the people would work twice as hard and
give contributions to save the country, but there are no trenches or civil
defense in Nam Dinh when I loft. Just north of the 17th parallel they're digging
many trenches though.
(More)
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doope
prisoner-7
I never finished my sohodling because I me drafted into the Army
in April, 1963.
Young men can be drafted at any time bege between ages
18 and 27, depending on the decision of the government.
They used to be drafted f
for the three goars but in 1960, changed it to two years.
I could not apply to be trained as an officer because that depends
on the cultrual standards of the student and mostly the origins of the parson.
Even university stulents can not apply to be officere if they come from landowner
or remotionary classes. Officers have to be from the poor peasant class and
recommended by the Communist Party.
When I want to the Army, my family was said and even cried, but
it's impossible to avoid it since I'd be arrested and jailed and arvien
driven out of school.
Before leaving, my family gave no a farewell dinner and
my mother cried and complained, 'I've trienxt
raised my son up to twenty years of age; I've sent him up to the 9th class;
now the government takes him from mo. It's impossible for me to keep him."
I ma first taken to a training center in Thanh Hoa. There were
2000 drafteen there and for three months we went through basic training-like mazax
marching in the ranks and shooting at targets. We always had enough to ent
there and stayed in the training school barracks. At the end of three months,
we were given green fatigue uniforms and were then sent a to different units.
I was sent a to Div. 324 along with 200 of the 2000 draftees, all 200
of us gene one company-00. 6, batl. 7 of Div. 324. This division was stationed
in Nghe An. (American intelligence experts aware of 325th Div., but not the
324th).
(More)
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deepe
prisoner 8
To worked with the
This division was stationed in Nghe An.
Division eight hours a day and two nights a week we had might training and went
out on maneuvere at the end of the year. I specialised in .81 m. morters.
But when it rained, we took political studies on the militery
tradition of the mys
sometimes we'd have the stalkon eight or nine days
in a row when it reinet, eat themcometinos we wouldn't have thon for two or 3
To could send letters to our family whenever we wanted; a otep
months.
cost M .12 dong.
The officers of the division became the officers of my company.
Ench company had om company commander, ono deputy, one political calzo, but
no staff officers boosune they're only with battaliona.
Host of the officers
in my company end bettalion were in about 30; officers at division-
level were about 35-10, but we didn't soo those very often.
Most of the time
all officers more rubber tire sendals like mine, but occasionally they wore
boots.
TOPO
I know about 10 or 15 of the other privates pretty wells all
North Vietneno.co.
A21 200 in our croup speko in North Vietnamese
dialoote
After six months of this training with the division, I went with
one battalion for 20 days in Paril April, 1964 to work on roads and build dikes
on the River Lan. We were then sent back to the division.
I'd been in the
army a year by then (April, 1964) but I was not allowed to see my parents.
We're supposed to have seven days leave a year.
(more)
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deepe
prisoner 9
nino
Them in leg, I went with two companion-100 mun-by truck to the
south--to Dong lioi (
). Bech truck: horried 20 men.
The trucks were no Chinese-made Molotovas, some with four wheel, come with
six.
To stayed overnight at Dong Hoi.
At 6 .. the next day mo were taken to the airport in Dong Hoi
to board a helicopter for Leos. I'd mover soon a helicopter before, but
I felt normal, others in the company wore our riood et it, rnd just
starod at it, lo one protested when we were given orders to go to Southe
There were only 2 helicopters at the airport, but 20-30
aizplanes with two propellors.
There were no foreignere at the airpot and
the pilots for the helicopters ware Vietmese. The two helicopters could
Oorry & 20 men enchy they are russion-male; they had russian obaracters on
thom, and more painted bind. Each trip to Looe took 40 minutes end
ench made 5 tript
of the 100 men I went to Lane with, about 100 bugim had
been in baie reining with me. about 30 came from other provinces. But l nll
160 palcos North Vietnes. I never heard anyone speaking
another dialect.
We innlod somuhere in the jungles of Laos and got out the
One cadre from the South
moet us in Loos and tod: the whole group to the Testern borner of thus Thien
province (South Viot Sam). He didn't have a uniform and we called his chief
of the grout.
There are other loond aadro too, ithout uniforms,
holicopter end bod to aaroh all day for ten dogs.
we called then simply chief.
(Mora)
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doopa
prisoner-10
Whon von rrived at the western border of Thun Thion, we stayed
there 2 months, olearing the jungle fo for a mall helicopter x landing
sono o aloo plantel manico (
). During these two months
we ate more nandoo than rloo and me had mix Southern officers for the two
companies. Those officers had a different accent and wore more difficult for
us to understand.
In this jungle area, we had no classes; no camps or barracks.
We only a worked in the jungle and clopt in hemnoaks. When I got on the
helicopter Thx I carriet with me my rifle, hammock, bag of clothes, 80
bullets. I was in uniform on the helicopter and also in the jungles I had
three uniforms of good fatiguen thick cloth and one wool coat. Nobody was allowed
to have ai dn diarios or to write lettere to their families. I couldn't
even write my mother I was going South and k now she doesn't know where I am.
In the jungle we saw planes and helicopters and the southoen
cadro said they were american. We were all homesick and wo talked about our
placos at home. I had honda hoe and caught malerin all the nurses were non
and they didn't have enough medioino-only cotton, anot anti-malaria druge end
some penicillin for injections,
Then one day we were told to march. We were given no
explanations oxoopt it was sooret and could not be revealed. A sot Southern
x officer gave me black shorts and shirt to wear. I loft to uniforms
in the jungle and put another uniform and kheli hat in beg elong with a
piece of nylong one meter by two meter 2 to serve no a raincoat. I also had
my rifle, which fired five shots, one shot at a time, and 40 bullets.
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deepe
prisonor--11
We left the jungle and marched four nights to the lowlands in
the daytime we wont into the bushos. We followed ono trail, men behind men,
in single file. We were organised in platoons of 22 persons onob and we traveled
through the trail ono platoon at a tino. Each platoon had fouthern leaders
end one deputyo nine platoon loaders and nion nine deputies--all Southernors.
After four days we cane to one village and mode an took about
7 pem. But I and 3 others got lost before the attack about one ilo kilometer
I saw many people but I dare not ask them for food boomune
would reveal I was a lorthorner and I had no money.
from the village.
On the second day all four of us were dough cought two more killed,
one osoaped but was wounded and later captured. I was caught by regular forces
of more than 40 men when I got wounded in the knoe.
tom South Viet Nam is different from the North. Hore
the villeges have trenches and spion spiken around them (strategie hamlets),
but in the forth, they have no defences. In the South you oon havo anything you
want if you have the money you could buy radios and bicycles.
But a in the
North, even if one had the money, ho could not buy a radio. Only the andro
radion
can-and they cost 700 dong.
I don't know what will happen to ne kus now. I hope the govemment
will be lonient to me and let me go free. I'd stay in the South and work.
But I wound wouldn't joing the South Vietnamese army. I've had enough of my life.
-30-
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Date
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1964, July
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Subject
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Vietnam War, 1961-1975; Le Phan Hung; Soldiers; Vietnam (Democratic Republic). Quân đội; Prisoners of war; New York herald tribune
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Location
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Saigon, South Vietnam
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Coordinates
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10.8231; 106.6297
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Size
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21 x 27 cm
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Container
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B4, F2
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Format
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dispatches
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Collection Number
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MS 363
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Collection Title
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Beverly Deepe Keever, Journalism Papers
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Creator
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Keever, Beverly Deepe
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Collector
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Keever, Beverly Deepe
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Copyright Information
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These images are for educational use only. To inquire about usage or publication, please contact Archives & Special Collections.
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Publisher
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Archives & Special Collections
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Language
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English
